Why should (You) be a Christian?

[Warrior-Z]

I’m an Atheist, My time zone is EST

Oh okay, then I suppose we can discuss God as a whole?

 

[Warrior-Z]

Sure, And Islam aswell. Also are you going to make a vc thread? When?

We can either debate tonight or tomorrow, depending on how available I'll be, do I just make a VC debate thread on /rel/?

 

[baqqrih]

No, Make a vc thread on the sharty because that’s what we can use for vc o algo

Looks like he's offline, so you may have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[baqqrih]

I read “tomorrow” and that’s all what I thought in planning in advance, Maybe you should join

Nah, my voice is wrecked right now because I have a cold.

 

[baqqrih]

Then why are you on here?

In the thread or on the site as a whole?

 

[baqqrih]

The site as a whole

I'm just trying to chillax right now. I think I'll go to bed in around half an hour.

 

[Rapist Bunger]

cause god loves you thoughbeit

 

[Lism]

Okay, I never claimed pagan gods had the same criterias of credibility than monotheism had. That was just an observation on my part, I even clarified that.

2) I did not claim that every pagan theology understood sacrifice as some form of satiation. Some do. My main point was that sacrifice, no matter what form it is given, is in fact a means to appease a god by having some sort of control over his mood.
One of the best examples of this is Zeus, who was offered literal bones by his worshippers because of one of the mythos involving Prometheus, Zeus gets deceived for the billionth time like the fool he is and instead of seeing the trick and getting mad, just fucking lets it be (Hesiod Theogony 535–545).
Here's another source studying roman and egyptian theology of sacrifice. From the quotes in latins, it is clearly meant that appeasing the gods was the goal of sacrifices made, human or not. (Jaucourt, Louis, chevalier de. "Pagan sacrifices.") http://hdl.handle.net/2027/spo.did2222.0004.162
The celts were among those who sacrificed the most and were the fucking worst of the pagans esepcially in terms of human sacrifice, but since they were such baboons who could not write, I haven't found a single solid source to back these claims up with them. Same for the North, Snow baboons who were not able to write down their shit.

Prometheus fulfills something of a Luciferan role. Zeus is not punishing Prometheus because he does not support the sacrifice of bones and fat, he is punishing Prometheus for trying to become the god of the humans and overturn the cosmic order. However, like with Lucifer, it was ultimately foreseen by Zeus, and planned by Zeus. This is why eventually, Zeus does let Prometheus go, at least according to Hesiod. It is pretty clear that Hesiod did not mean to portray Zeus as a victim of trickery here, as he explicitly states that Zeus already saw through the trick before he had even made his choice. He continues to emphacize the omniscience of Zeus throughout the nearby verses as well.

Thus Zeus, sneering, with imperishable wisdom.
And Prometheus, whose mind was devious,
Smiled softly and remembered his trickery

“Zeus most glorious, greatest of the everlasting gods,
Choose whichever of these your heart desires.”
This was Prometheus’ trick. But Zeus, eternally wise,
Recognized the fraud and began to rumble in his heart
Trouble for mortals, and it would be fulfilled.
With both his hands he picked up the gleaming fat.
Anger seethed in his lungs and bile rose to his heart
When he saw the ox’s white bones artfully tricked out.

The Celts were not illiterate, neither were the Germanics. In both cases, literacy was limited to the religious elite. In the case of the former, writing down beliefs was forbidden. In the case of the latter, it was forbidden to teach the peasantry the runes.
From Caesar's Commentary on the Gallic War:

"They are said there to learn by heart a great number of verses; accordingly some remain in the course of training twenty years. Nor do they regard it lawful to commit these to writing, though in almost all other matters, in their public and private transactions, they use Greek characters. That practice they seem to me to have adopted for two reasons; because they neither desire their doctrines to be divulged among the mass of the people, nor those who learn, to devote themselves the less to the efforts of memory, relying on writing; since it generally occurs to most men, that, in their dependence on writing, they relax their diligence in learning thoroughly, and their employment of the memory."

This is quite important for the argument at large, because most pagan traditions have both an esoteric and exoteric side. The religious elite recognize the necessity of rite, but the common man perhaps does not. Although it is certainly possible that the gods do punish people for failing to carry out rite, as there are several historical events which could be interpreted as a punishment for the apostacy of Greco-Roman Pagans, it also serves as a motivation for the common people to carry out proper rites.

Anyway, no, the demand of pagan gods for sacrifice is not the same as the biblical God demanding to not commit idolatry. The theology is fundamentaly different. Whenever mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, idols are considered to be "lifeless" and "pieces of wood", not gods. At worst, the gods themselves are considered demons, not other existing gods. Also, the gods not punishing those who never knew sacrifice is quite okay, if it weren't for the fact that a good proportion of pagans converted to christianity on their own, and their gods did not smite them down for it.

Why is it not the same? Why does it matter whether or not the idols have real deities in them, or are just empty? The point is the same, in both cases you are committing an injustice against Jehovah by devoting worship to unworthy entities instead of Jehovah. Perhaps a Christian would think it is okay for God to punish those who don't know any better, but Pagan apologists like Julian sharply disagreed and criticized Christianity on these exact grounds.

 

[jimbo]

Prometheus fulfills something of a Luciferan role. Zeus is not punishing Prometheus because he does not support the sacrifice of bones and fat, he is punishing Prometheus for trying to become the god of the humans and overturn the cosmic order. However, like with Lucifer, it was ultimately foreseen by Zeus, and planned by Zeus. This is why eventually, Zeus does let Prometheus go, at least according to Hesiod. It is pretty clear that Hesiod did not mean to portray Zeus as a victim of trickery here, as he explicitly states that Zeus already saw through the trick before he had even made his choice. He continues to emphacize the omniscience of Zeus throughout the nearby verses as well.

The Celts were not illiterate, neither were the Germanics. In both cases, literacy was limited to the religious elite. In the case of the former, writing down beliefs was forbidden. In the case of the latter, it was forbidden to teach the peasantry the runes.
From Caesar's Commentary on the Gallic War:

This is quite important for the argument at large, because most pagan traditions have both an esoteric and exoteric side. The religious elite recognize the necessity of rite, but the common man perhaps does not. Although it is certainly possible that the gods do punish people for failing to carry out rite, as there are several historical events which could be interpreted as a punishment for the apostacy of Greco-Roman Pagans, it also serves as a motivation for the common people to carry out proper rites.

Why is it not the same? Why does it matter whether or not the idols have real deities in them, or are just empty? The point is the same, in both cases you are committing an injustice against Jehovah by devoting worship to unworthy entities instead of Jehovah. Perhaps a Christian would think it is okay for God to punish those who don't know any better, but Pagan apologists like Julian sharply disagreed and criticized Christianity on these exact grounds.

clitty leak is all i see.

 

[baqqrih]

clitty leak is all i see.

Intellectual discussion is hardly "leakage". Lism is a well-educated fellow.

 

[Lism]

clitty leak is all i see.

That's because your phone went to sleep because you stared in shock and awe so long of my facts and logic, and the black screen that remained showed you your reflection.

 

[Lism]

Intellectual discussion is hardly "leakage". Lism is a well-educated fellow.

Sorry I accidentally ESL reacted, that was meant for jimbo

 

[Nihilma]

Prometheus fulfills something of a Luciferan role. Zeus is not punishing Prometheus because he does not support the sacrifice of bones and fat, he is punishing Prometheus for trying to become the god of the humans and overturn the cosmic order. However, like with Lucifer, it was ultimately foreseen by Zeus, and planned by Zeus. This is why eventually, Zeus does let Prometheus go, at least according to Hesiod. It is pretty clear that Hesiod did not mean to portray Zeus as a victim of trickery here, as he explicitly states that Zeus already saw through the trick before he had even made his choice. He continues to emphacize the omniscience of Zeus throughout the nearby verses as well.

The Celts were not illiterate, neither were the Germanics. In both cases, literacy was limited to the religious elite. In the case of the former, writing down beliefs was forbidden. In the case of the latter, it was forbidden to teach the peasantry the runes.
From Caesar's Commentary on the Gallic War:

This is quite important for the argument at large, because most pagan traditions have both an esoteric and exoteric side. The religious elite recognize the necessity of rite, but the common man perhaps does not. Although it is certainly possible that the gods do punish people for failing to carry out rite, as there are several historical events which could be interpreted as a punishment for the apostacy of Greco-Roman Pagans, it also serves as a motivation for the common people to carry out proper rites.

Why is it not the same? Why does it matter whether or not the idols have real deities in them, or are just empty? The point is the same, in both cases you are committing an injustice against Jehovah by devoting worship to unworthy entities instead of Jehovah. Perhaps a Christian would think it is okay for God to punish those who don't know any better, but Pagan apologists like Julian sharply disagreed and criticized Christianity on these exact grounds.

I don't have time right now to answer, I have a lot of shit to do and go to my college lessons.
I'll read it thoroughly, make my own research and'll answer you then.
Have a nice day, I'll try to make myself some time as soon as possible.

I also propose, if you want to, to switch to a new thread to talk about this topic specificaly rather than continuing to derail this thread.

 

[WhatTheFuck]

redemption!

 

[JC Denton]

So Hitler should have sat back and watch his people be slaughtered?

Didn't you say you have slavic blood? Why are you defending hitler?

 

[Dr Frumpus Croid]

Didn't you say you have slavic blood? Why are you defending hitler?

I don’t like Slavic people very much.

 

[DonutHole]

So Hitler should have sat back and watch his people be slaughtered?

Yes because Hitler's a sissy BNWO enthusiast that would get off on that

 

[JC Denton]

I don’t like Slavic people very much.

So you hate yourself also?

 

[Dr Frumpus Croid]

So you hate yourself also?

I’m intellectually superior to my brethren so I thank myself for that.

 

[SuperNiggerDestroyer]

I don’t like Slavic people very much.

Why? They’re white. We have a bigger threat to us (browns, jews, etc). And we shouldn’t be keepi ourselves fighting eachother over snca and instead be united against the common enemy. I was thinking this as a problem with the majority of internet white supremecists yesterda.